In the midst of living life there are many beautiful experiences that go along with our journeys. The birth of child. The joy of coming together with a loved one. The countless milestones along the way, but what about the experience of death and the pain of grief that comes afterwards? My guest this week is here to shed light on a subject that most people are not comfortable with.
Her name is Sharon Brubaker and she is a certified Life Coach and credentialed Grief Specialist. After the tragic drowning of her ten-year-old nephew Austin, Sharon was heartbroken. She never thought she would feel normal again. She felt an overwhelming urge to “fix” her baby sister. Little did she know at the time that Erica was not broken and did not need to be fixed. Just like her she was simply grieving.
Sharon searched everywhere for grief healing for Erica. She was lucky enough to find an educational program on grief and was so inspired by her own healing she decided to become a Grief Specialist. Sharon is the founder of Grief Healing with Sharon. The premier online grief coaching program for women suffering from grief due to death.
As a Grief Specialist, Sharon has helped hundreds of grieving women complete their own personal grief and come through the pain, isolation, and loneliness left behind in our hearts after death.
Sharon was the host of her own weekly radio show KHTS, The Grief Recovery Hour. In 2018 Sharon was honored to be on the first ever Grief Specialist on the TEDx stage.
Together Sharon and Erica are the authors of The Healing Place and Processing Grief- the journal for the fresh new griever.
She and Erica host a weekly podcast Healing Starts with the Heart, available on, iTunes, Spotify and SoundCloud. Sharon and Erica travel around the country and help grieving people everywhere.
Insights to add to your spiritual toolbox from this episode:
1. Tragic events that occur to create inner grief
2. Death specialist
3. Feeling all alone
4. Collective energies we all feel
5. Talking about the brokenness
6. Give people space when they are grieving
7. Teaching children about grief
8. Karmic connections and contracts with others
9. Connecting to deceased loved ones
10. Healing Starts With the Heart Podcast
Sharon's Website, Healing Starts With The Heart Podcast, Facebook
Hi! I’m Teresa. I am a highly trained, certified Spiritual Educator and Consultant who helps people in their personal and spiritual development. My husband Tom and I started TNT SpiritWorks a few years back to do just that- help people along their spiritual journey. We love working with clients – helping them to tap into their inner guidance system on a daily basis, create a healthy balance between thought and feeling – and discover a stronger connection between their inner and outer communication system. Unlock ways to make the spiritual part of life practical. Connect with us at TNT SpiritWorks today!
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life, there are many beautiful experiences that go along with our journeys, the birth of children, the joy of coming together with loved ones, the countless milestones along the way. But what about the experience of death and the pain of grief that comes afterwards? My guest this week is here to shed some light on a subject that most people are not comfortable with. Her name is Sharon Brubaker. And she's a certified life coach and credentialed grief specialist after a tragic drowning of her 10 year old nephew Austin. Sharon was heartbroken. She never thought she would feel normal again. She felt an overwhelming urge to fix her baby sister. little does she know at the time that Erica was not broken. And did not need to be fixed. Just like her she was simply grieving. Sharon searched everywhere for grief healing for Erica. She was lucky enough to find an educational program on grief and was so inspired by her own healing. She decided to become a grief specialist Sharon is the founder of grief healing with Sharon, the premier online grief coaching program for women suffering from grief due to death. As a grief specialist Sharon has helped hundreds of grieving women complete their own personal grief and come through the pain isolation and loneliness left behind in our hearts after death. Sharon was the host of her own weekly radio show KHTS The Grief Recovery hour. In 2018. Sharon was honored to be the first ever grief specialist on the TEDx stage. together sharing the Erica the authors of the healing place and processing grief the journal for the fresh new Griever she and Erica host a weekly podcast healing starts with the heart available on iTunes Spotify and SoundCloud, Sharon and Erica travel around the country and help grieving people everywhere. welcome Sharon. Thank you so much. And this is my favorite subject to be discussing. Great. Oh, I have chills as we as I even say that because mine too because I have been through a lot of things like most people and we don't talk about this subject so I am super excited to hear today. Thank you. Thank you so much. And I'm so honored that you guys have me as your guests. So let's talk about grief because it comes up not only in death, but I've had grief in my divorce. I've had grief from my two older daughters no longer talking to me from other issues in life. So it's not just death, which is obviously a really big area we grieve in but let's I would love for you to talk a little bit about grief and how it affects us in different variations. So the main two ways that people usually attach the word grief to is death and divorce right would that all makes sense or a little bit of breakup of a romantic relationship? But there are 45 or more known losses that can cause a grieving experience in our heart. Divorce breakup of romantic relationship, bankruptcy financial changes, financial challenge of winning the lottery, you wouldn't think that that would be a grieving experience. But now you've got people calling you asking to borrow money, you don't know how to manage the money all of that can be a grieving experience. And then there's layers to the grief right. So the death of your spouse and now you've lost his income. Now you have to go out and work and you've been a housewife, let's say for 40 years now you're trying to figure out a way to make up the income. Your daughter is struggling because of the loss of her dad. There's a layer there. Now you and your daughter are struggling together. There's a layer there so there's layers to agree that experience as well as all of the main experiences that we we discuss, you know, and grief is the feeling in our heart that something is just not right, or a loss of feeling of loss or loneliness that our heart feels so what about what we've been going through the last couple years with the pandemic and all and the people who passed on and all of us who are still grieving for maybe the the previous life we had that is no longer there. I mean, that is huge. The the even the simple that people that got locked down and we're alone, right? This one one way, also the people that have lost their jobs, the people that couldn't be around their family. So for me that was issues my family have as an example my husband is older than I am so and he is his health is not perfect. So my husband and my mother was living with us at that time. So it was the three of us that got locked in together, along with a cousin who happened to ask me if she could stay with me for a couple months and then the pandemic happened. So it was the four of us all away from our family. She was away from her kids and her grandchildren I could not allow because my mom's age my brothers and sisters were not able to come over and they were struggling with the fact that I kind of shut things down you know, so there was a struggle in the families, the grieving experience, everything that you wish was better, different or more can cause a grieving experience in your Wow. Yeah. And so in talking about like energy of grief in your heart, and that energy that emanates from that and I know for myself as an empath and a very sensitive person. I am feeling and have been feeling a lot of that that I've had to really work on myself personally. Because you know, I can take care of myself but my goodness, like the collective energy of grief and how does that How do you work with that and the people that come to that are very open and sensitive and you know, feeling a lot of what's going on now one of the things that I loved about I just looked at your website and your your thoughts and feelings and so what I wrote down because that's a lot of the areas that I hang out in its thoughts and feelings, because we're grieving experience can be intellectual, which is all in our brain, or it can be emotion and the truth is this. So so hear me out on this. I got to get you to drop down into your heart and feel those feelings because that's where the brokenness is, that's where the grief is, if I can get you down there and really allow those feelings in and feel it. Collectively that's that's where the change is going to happen. Unfortunately, some of us just can't do it. We just can't we struggle there and so it's it's me just walking you through step by step just trying to help you understand because simply having this thought, right, you and these are things the world Pelzer thank you with a lot of these thoughts and we buy into that. You never get over the loss of a child. You don't ever get over the loss of anyone, you go through it. And you allow those feelings to be there. Just give it time. Just give it time and you'll feel better and I often ask people reverse how much time? How much time does it take to grieve? And they all have an answer a one year two years, you know, but what about if we really did the work if we really allow the feelings to be there? What if we really sat in the sadness for one minute, two minutes? What difference that makes? Yeah, a lot the difference for us as well as for those living close to us who are probably also grieving or in their stairs, stage or wherever they're at. And then of course, like I said, the collective Yeah, yes. When you've gone through a total grieving experience, and that's that's kind of tough, but I'm going to say this because I feel that you will totally get it you'll totally understand it. Is that when you've gone through it in the beginning, this is not happening. You're you're in a zombie state. You literally can't think your mind. You're asking yourself the one question over and over again. Why? Actually there was why. And as time goes on, eventually what happens about the six month mark in longer you get to the point where you just absolutely can't stand the pain anymore, and you've got to do something about it. When you have absolutely done your work, and you've could complete it the pain, loneliness and isolation that's in your heart. My personal experience is there was beauty in that there was me and we see in Austin and seeing the the way he was taken care of and this the things that happened. I mean, I looked for what was going on, I just put it out there and I was like I'm gonna trust that this is going to be taken care of things like they told me you know, we wouldn't be able to get him back for six months and we had him back in a week. There's just the things that happened. And when you when you really look at it, you're like, wow, there is beauty in this experience, but you have to be healed to see that. Exactly. And I don't know about you, but I've been through quite a few deaths. Yeah. And so it like each time not that it gets easier but it kind of does I kind of know what to expect. And I know, you know how to work through it. And I know one thing you talk about is that the Griever needs to talk and be heard. Let's talk a little about that because that feels really big Sharon. That is huge. That's huge. So let's say let's say it's even. Let's say it's a divorce, for example. The Griever needs to be nice to talk about their brokenness. They need to have the right to say whatever they're going to say, even the ugly. What if the ugliest I hated her I hated the way she treated me. I hate it when she did this. What are those are your true feelings about your spouse, right? You have nothing of the place to say that without judgment. That that I'm going to try to correct you. I'm not going to try to fix you. You just have to have that place to say it. So as important as it is for the Griever to talk and say that ugly. They also have to be listened to and heard with respect. What does that mean? That means the listener needs to just keep their mouth shut just like you shared earlier. I was doing all these things and saying all of these things Erica because I didn't know. I didn't know that what she really needed was for me to just listen to her. Right? Just say I'm so mad. I'm so mad that he got carbon monoxide. I'm so mad that he went on this trip. I'm so upset about that. But every time she would say it, I would try to fix it. Well, you're not really mad are you? You know I would try to change it and that's not what we're supposed to do. You just need to listen, just the lips and let them say whatever. And my God in our society that's a hard thing for people to do to just listen right? I mean it because a lot of the work that Tom my husband I do when we do workshops and stuff that's a big deal is allowing people to get up and talk or be heard in a in a situation where you're not trying to fix you're not trying to you know get in their way or or put in your concepts and beliefs or understandings into what they're going through. Because in especially with grief, I mean, everyone's a unique soul so they're going through it differently. Here's the other thing. Something happens to the grater when they hear themselves say it out loud. When you hear yourself say the thing out loud your brain and your heart start to line up. Like Oh yeah, okay, I get it now. And that's when you can start doing the healing because is willing to accept it. And so that's a beautiful thing. And for us not to jump up and fix them is huge. And I know grief is also a normal and natural reaction to things we go through. Correct, Sharon. So can you imagine if we taught this in, in elementary school and kindergarten, you know, typically, the first grieving experience for a child I'm not gonna say typically, but most often is going to be that they lost their pet right? So their dog is gonna die or their cat is gonna die. And a lot of times what we do in America because we love our kids so much we don't want them to feel pain. When we're on Saturday, Mommy's going to take you to get a new dog. Oh, we're gonna go to the pound. But you know what she loves Joey going slept in her bed every night. Julie was her friend. Jody was the one who listened to our secrets even at five years old. She's got to be allowed to grieve Joey completely before we can replace the loss. If we started at a very young age, you know, by the time we're teenagers, when we really are grieving, right? Everything at a junior high school is degree and experience to our adult age. We will be able to handle these experiences so much better, but that's not what happens. We try to fix we change the subject. We cover it up. We replace the loss. We tell them to keep busy we do all of the things that are not helpful for our Griever. So in your work, do you also help children and teens? Yes, I do. But here's the deal. If I'm going to work with a child or I'm going to work with a team, I need to work with the parents. First. We need to make sure that the child is going back into a grief knowledge to home right where they understand grief and they're talking grief. If I pull a teenager out, and I do a ton of grief work with him and it's beautiful, and he completes his relationship with his dad with Python, and he's in a beautiful place. And then I sent him back home where he's getting some of this misinformation about grief. I have done him a disservice. So typically, we start with the parents and a lot of times if I can work with even just one of the parents, I can help that parent help their own child. I can show them and walk them through the steps of helping their own child and having open communication with their child about grief. So it goes a couple of different ways. But it all depends on the situation. Of course right and that totally makes sense because it yeah stems from like the person who's taking care of the child and their beliefs and how they come about things like that. So so it was the death of Austin that really started all this or have you been contemplating this beforehand? I was an event planner. Okay. Wasn't event planner. I was a florist I did weddings. I did specialize in that I worked in hotel. I was a director of catering and Austin died and when I was actually selling real estate at the time and still doing my that business so when I walked up the stairs to tell Erica that Austin we have found him and he had in fact drowned. This thought went through my head is I don't know how to grieve. I've never done this before. And the other thing that I knew is I knew that there were these groups, but they were at the hospital and they were bereavement groups and but in my mind, right? They were for old people when they lost their spouse. I don't know why that's what I thought that was the extent of my knowledge on grief. That was and so I went out on a mission to find out everything that I could about grief. And the first thing I came upon was the five stages of grief. Elisabeth Kubler Ross and that's what my talk is on. I completely debunk the stages of grief that she put out. And well society understand that we managed to be able to talk about grief and talk about grief openly. And I did watch that TED Talk and it was wonderful. What an inspirational talk that is and so anyone listening or watching YouTube, you could check it out on on your website. It's right on there but just a powerhouse Hello, go Sharon. And you said Erica was going to do on two did she get to do on also mistake she's still working on getting them picked up and getting her subjects so she actually is finishing her memoirs right now and so on that she's gonna go after it. So if you saw that then you saw that she lost her second child. Donovan. 21 years old here in Texas in a motorcycle accident. And that's where the grief showed up a little differently. He showed up differently because here I am like, Okay, again, I'm the one who has to tell her that Donovan has died. And I just assumed Okay, we are grief specialists. We are we know what we're going to do and we're gonna do our program. And she was like, No, I'm not doing that and anger showed up for her. And she was mad and she was really I'm gonna excuse my language what pissed and or she literally sat on the couch for almost a year in pain and refused to let me know she would say just the math so that I would think she was doing okay but wasn't wouldn't do the work. And finally it all just started to crumble. And I together she and I looked at that grief in a different way and we realized that a lot of times people resist we know it feels so bad. It is almost like you put your hands up and you push back. And so together she and I created a new program called processing the pain of grief, which we help the new Griever to understand. You're going to resist. You're going to react and you're going to want to avoid this grief but you got to go through it. And like you're saying and each one is different. It's different. That's why we don't compare losses we don't compare grief. So she's, if I could say the poster child for not comparing grief she's watching two boys right? And years apart. And both of the grieving experiences showed up differently. In the same way in between those losses. She and I both lost our father and I was the oldest daughter I was the one that took care of all of his medical needs. I took all that doctors offices. We have a sister it's a nurse practitioner. So she had final say but I was the one that did the grounding. And Erica was his to Apple design. She was like his perfect what he loved her to death sees was his favorite child. I mean we all know that we all knew it at that time. Erica lost that father was the one that was a little stricter that was more demanding the more needs I lost that dad. So here we were both standing at the feet of his bed and he died when he died. We both lost a different dad because we both had a different relationship with Him. areas that were incomplete with him that were different from each other. Yeah, so So not only like you're saying this to different people for the same person that died has experiences but back to Erica when she had the child the children died to 10 years apart. She herself was in a different place to on her journey. So that had to come into play that did that come into play with how she you know went through it because of where she was at and what she'd always say obviously been through with Austin had already been through with Austin and I think I guess I would really have to I don't want to speak on this. I don't really have to seek but she did compare. We do compare in the sense of she looked back and goes well, this wasn't like that immediately. She knew it was different. But she wouldn't share it with me because she knew I would pick up on it and partly she didn't know what was happening. It was so overwhelmingly different. Just didn't know and the truth was, she was mad at Donovan because she called him out to buy the bike. She was mad at the world because she felt that it shouldn't matter the universe because she felt she had already given one. And she handled it graciously. And here you can book it back to take another it was mad at the people that showed up around her because there was no one that could fix this. So there were all these areas of anger that she was absolutely dealing with. And yes here she was 10 years older and at a different place in her life and had gone through the loss of Austin. And you know, we never imagined that it could happen again. You just you know that's really weird because I've know people throughout my life that have lost several children. And I'm like, you know why? I mean like I believe that all of our experiences you know, make up who we are and we are here to, to have experiences and some are gonna be positive, some are gonna be hard, you know, heartbreaking, but my god, yeah, there's people that do lose more than one ton. I mean, it's unimaginable to lose like one child but then to lose two or that you know, it's just it's so interesting the journeys that people have and how they you know, have to work through things. Absolutely, absolutely. I believe that an Eric and I both believe this, that spiritually, they all came together and they agreed that this would be their experience for sure. And that that 100% will be their experience. 100% and that Harun Lewis took this on knowing that be and that is also makes it really emotional because to me at some point, that's the beauty of it. There's beauty in that it's that me and you were strong enough to carry that. You know, like you were offered this position as this was going to be your this on this journey. This is what's going to happen, and they agreed to it. All four of them. I mean, I hate to say it, it's beautiful, because it really is share and that's like that is the higher, bigger spiritual picture of us as souls and what we experienced just like right now with not talking both of my two daughters aren't talking to me because I went through divorce. Okay, so we did come together to experience that and, and just like her in the voice, I mean, yes, I 100% agree and believe that, I believe in 100% and that's the one thing that gives me calmness sometimes because I know we'll see them again, very much. No, we'll see them again. And I know that I knew we're all connected spiritually, and that's how this path is gonna go. Even one I shared with you before the show started. My daughter just gave birth to twins. They're five months old now. When they got here, I think to each one of them for picking us and that I don't know what it's gonna be like and I said thank you for picking me because they picked us that's beautiful. Oh my gosh, you got me all emote? I'm feeling it to Sharon. Um, because one of my daughters had a baby and and handed over for adoption. When I met that baby. It looked me in the eyes before we hand it over to the new parents and I knew that soul Sharon and I know I'm going to meet it again. So same with you and the boys and anyone you know we are just, we're just passing through where we come and come again in different forms and different times but I am so feeling you big time with that. And that is a lot a lot of times I don't in the beginning I don't talk spiritual relationships with a lot of the the my clients, I wait to see where they're at. Read to have the conversation with me about the spirituality of death and grieving that part of it. But they're they're waiting for me to say something but when they do, man it's so beautiful, especially when they get science from their loved ones. But beautiful signs you know that they get that they are clear that their loved one is has sent them the sign and it's just amazing. And you're in when you've done your healing. Your heart is so much ready to receive it so much we're open. Yeah, and knowing because I do a lot of events and expos and things like that. And so I come across a lot of people telling me a lot of things and a lot of it is you know, I see my aunt or my dad or my mom or my loved ones and it is so comforting. I know for myself. My dad died when I was 23. So I was really young and two years later I had my first daughter and he came to me in a dream he was holding her and he told me what she was like what she was sex wise and also what to name her. So I mean confirmation like I just knew it was him Sharon in a dream so yeah, it's beautiful when we have these connections with in the spirit realm with our loved ones and they happen all the time. They could happen in different ways like I'll tell you this is a funny one. One time I was walking through, like a hardware store, and all of a sudden I smelt fried chicken. I'm like what the and I look around. I mean literally, there's no one even around me. I'm like It's grandpa. So when grandpa was alive, we were in Orange County and we'd take grandma to go to Disneyland. And we always had to get in my bucket a KFC on the way home. So sure enough grandpa told me he was there with letting me smell KFC and I was like, Oh, that was it was just it just warmed my heart. So the confirmation that our loved ones they're not dead. They're just on the other plane. Yeah, I have a beautiful client and she lost her mother joy. Want to tell her that I'm sharing about this. But her mother has a fragrance, a fragrance that smells like roses. And quite often she'll tell me I walked in the room and I could smell her perfume. And even her husband has said he will he'll go in and then come and get her. And so it is a beautiful experience when you know there that they are there. Yeah, and that and like I said it happens in all kinds of different ways. So it is so amazing though and it's amazing when your clients do go there because that is a big part of the healing. I feel it was for me when people had passed on. Yeah 100% 100 For sure. When when Donovan died I said to Erica, I was at her house and this was the week that he had died and I was like, you always have this many dragon flies around. She goes I've never seen a dragon fly. And I'm telling you they took over the her property like they were all over and since he has been gone, the dragonflies are just showing up everywhere. So yes, they show up. They show it they give us the signs they want to without a doubt. So let's talk Sharon about how you support people in the work that you do. So one of the first things that I do is what we were talking about earlier, so when the Griever comes to me, they're dying to talk. They really are and so I really just open up and say tell me what brought you here today. And sometimes it can start off a little quiet. But before you know it, it's there. You know, it's just they're able to share that. And so it's number one is talking and allowing them the place to talk and us being the listener with the heart with ears. That are just no comment. Then I walked through the definition of grief. So we need to understand grief completely. Grief is normal grief. It's natural. Every single person here on earth will have multiple grieving experiences throughout their life, not just death or divorce. They will have other grieving experiences. So then we start having them understand that. And the third step is that we review their relationship with their loved one. And we look at what are the things you still need to say to them. What are the things that you wished you had a chance to say? What are the things that you really wanted to say that you wouldn't have said out loud? And they just put them through a review of the relationship? And so you'll hear a lot of times people talk about closure, Eric and I don't buy into closure at all. We block we really talk about completion so when Austin got here, the day Austin was born, I was at the hospital, Austin and I walked this journey together. And he was only supposed to be here for 10 years. And now when we look back at his relationship with that relationship, some of the things he said we knew, you know now it all makes sense. So for that 10 years, I walked with Austin and adds his art. And he funny thing about Austin is that he would tell people that my husband was the richest man in the world, which I'm here to tell you is not true. But he loved everything about my husband, my husband was a stuntman. My husband rode horses my husband drove a dually truck and had a director, everything Austin was in love with. And so there were many times Austin would be at my house for a very long time. And we had a beautiful relationship together. But on the day when Austin died, my journey with him was cut short. And so now it was up to me to complete the journey and come full circle. We have to complete the journey of the loss and come full circle. And that's what we do is we help them work out that relationship. Oddly enough, a lot of times before we can get to the relationship of the of the loved one that we've lost. Sometimes when we have to work out another relationship. It's not uncommon for Grievers to have to work out their relationship with their dad or they may have had another loss 30 or 40 years ago that they've never worked on. And so we look at we look for everything and we help them complete all those areas. A person who's completed a journey feels lighter. They don't feel weighed down and heavy. They can look at photos of their loved one without crying. I can talk about Austin all the time. I could share stories about him. And yes, there are some times that tears may still come to surprise me the other day and played a video of what recording of his voice right when the podcast open. She totally got me. And so yes, there are times where tears will still come. But I live my best life because they were on this journey with me. And that's that's what healing should look like right? Oh, I tell you I think that you and Erica should be in every single I know you probably hear us all time every single mortuary and you know bereavement place because man some of the people in those places Sharon so like my brother died a couple of years ago. We went in there and he was kind of a loner guy and he didn't really have a lot of friends and it really had just my mom and I because my dad had passed away years before and so you know I'm in there and of course I'm crying mom's crying. We're trying to get through this and the guys like will and I'm trying to tell the guy you know all we want is cremation yada yada. He's like, but don't you want to service and call it? Oh, I'm telling you share and they were on me. I'm like, I mean, I literally almost had to scream at him and go, he had no friends and then of course I was crying more because David had no free you know, we were the only connection. So boy that I mean just the I don't know what's the word I want to say? They're, they're not even compassion. Oftentimes, it's theirs. I feel like like my bet my very best girlfriend 15 years passed away a couple years ago and I went to the funeral home with their daughter. They tried to sell us an 11 by 14 photo of her a necklace and some certificate. And we were just looking for cremation just like you. So the truth is that you know, be open to the idea that they they're doing their business, but you're also doing your business and I want to say this for all of you listeners. We can shop around you don't have to go to that one place. Please shop around. There's plenty of places out there that will listen to you and give you the parts that you want. But they're in the business of selling the things we need. And here's the thing, we get there, and our hearts are so broken. Of course we want the best right? There's another layer to the grieving experience. Just like I was talking, it's another layer to the grief experience. Well, I didn't buy it, share it. I didn't get nothing but the cremation. And I said When can I come back because I was like, No, I'm not doing that. I'm not doing that. But I hear what you're saying. So yeah, again, you guys aren't much needed or a million of you maybe I put you probably hear that too. Right Sharon? Like you know, you can only do so many it's like okay, well how can we you know take into spread you guys out everywhere to support because this is so needed. It's about changing the conversation. On grief. That's really what it is. And Eric and I share that all the time that we're going to do this until the day we're no longer here so that this conversation gets changed. Here's the other thing I think is so eye opening for us is that all of us collectively, like you're talking about have all gone through a grieving experience the last three years that have taken place. So how many Grievers are out there due to that do the COVID losses right or subsequent that one loss the spouse wants to COVID the other one died shortly afterwards. So there's a lot of that that happened. Right. So now is the time that we need to have this conversation. We need to be having this conversation. It is truly about completing the beautiful relationship that you've always had. And sometimes it's the tough relationship you've had you still need to complete those two. You know, if you if your thought is I really hated her. You need to complete that my friend. Yeah. Because if not, it's going to come back and it's going to weigh on you or it's going to cause cancer or it's going to Yes, like there's lots of layers to that right? Yes, a lot of layers. It's going to grief it's going to find a way out. That's what Eric always says it's going to find a way out for sure. And we don't want it to eat our insides and then come out so pass on that ride sharing your work and Eric is work I'm just so in awe of and I'm so happy you came on today. And before we go I want to talk a little bit about your beautiful podcast. Healing starts with the heart because oh my gosh, I just love that name. Oh, thank you so much. Erica actually came up with that and that is it's a it's such a fun time for her and I and the other thing that happens is that we'll be talking to a Griever somewhere along the way and they'll struggle in something and we were able to put that in together and show it in the podcast. A lot of times people will listen to our podcasts for weeks on end before they even get in touch with us. It is the fastest way for us to put information out. We talked about divorce. We talked about death. We talk about health. We talk about sex, we talk about the pandemic we talk about COVID we talk about politics, we talk about Black Lives Matter and the grieving experience we talk there's no subject that the grief does not touch, right. We go into all of the different areas there which is really cool. Beautiful. Well, again, thank you so much, Sharon for coming on today. And let's talk a little bit first off another little bit is how people get in touch with you. So they get in touch with me at Sharonbrubaker.com You can email me at Sharon@Sharon brubaker.com Healing starts With the Heart on YouTube or on any of wherever you get your podcasts and simply just putting in Jan Brubaker I will pop right up and so that's the best way beautiful and of course I'll have all those links in the show notes listeners and watchers so you can check out Sharon and her amazing, amazing business. So thank you again, Shannon for coming on today. Oh, that was wonderful. Sharon. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you all for listening in on another episode of Enthusiastically Spiritual. It was so amazing to have Sharon here today talking about grief, the process and how to get the support you need as you go through it. So if you've not subscribed please make sure that you subscribe to this podcast because it comes out every Tuesday and you don't want to miss any upcoming episodes. Also make sure that you like it and please share it with your friends. let others know about this amazing podcast and all the beautiful guests that come on and share their services. So until next week, please remember that life is too short to not be enthusiastic about your unique journey.